My horses Mother?

[UmmYeah]

Jordan, Jolene may have been wrong about your gender, but she was right about everything else. Do yourself a favor and re-read her message to you. You'd do well to heed her advice. Her parents own and run one of the best stallion/breeding farms in Oregon, and she knows what she's talking about.

[madelyn]

Jordan, one more word of advice if you want people to take your requests (which have actually been worded more like demands recently).... saying "please" and "thank you" can go a long way.

[AfleetAlex#1fan]

Well all what color was "One For The Sea" registered as?Who was her last foal by?Abstract?Please help me out here.Please and Thank You is Given to all that has helped and continue to help.Thanks all.
Thanks,
Jordan

[BJ]

No she wont be bred to Afleet Alex this year.She may be ready to be bred by 2007 breeding season if thats what you mean.Dose anyone have Abstract`s and/or Pie Rise`s VGL case #`s for DNA typing so I can get that underway for my filly?
Thanks,
Jordan

Jordan,

Pie Rise has a "DNA Sample Posted", per the Jockey Club. I'm sure the sire of your mare also has a "DNA Sample Posted". So, you need to be conducting your "investigation" through the Jockey Club.

If you are polite in your dealings with The Jockey Club, they are usually quite helpful in directing you to the desired answer.

No one else can just "get you" their "VGL Case #" info.

It seems highly unlikely to me, if Pie Rise was sold to the killers, that those that sold her, into such hands, would be willing or "able to locate" the info you are seeking? So my best advice would be to be polite and patient and to work with The Jockey Club, where the DNA info is posted.

[MichaelThomson]

(Note: none of the above went to slaughter).

Additionally, he once owned a mare named One for the Sea - a mare whose last foal was also bred by Mrs. Ricci Rathka. Wonder where that mare ended up?

Yes, I get your point, "magic code".

But they didn't actually get slaughtered.

And You are also angry if he sells them to another home.

OK.

You never did answer the question of who you are...but a little bird tells me you work for a farm that culls with the best of them.

[BJ]

"... a farm that culls with the best of them.

Does "cull" have to mean "high risk of ending up at slaughter"?

Can't breeders take responsibility for the animals they breed into existence? Or at the very least, not breed on a "numbers curve" but a "quality curve".

Of course they can. They generally just don't. So, WHY should that be "okay?"

I think all breeders should follow the example set by breeders like Mary Lou Whitney...who learned the hard way, that the horses she breeds and later sells or gives away, can easily end up in a kill pen. Her contribution to a partial solution...

QUOTED from Thoroughbred Times article:

>>>Whitney and Hendrickson paid Angel Acres $2,500 to adopt Cviano, who was scheduled to be shipped to their farm in Lexington on Wednesday. Instead of being slaughtered, the bay gelding by Rubiano will fulfill a dream of 11-year-old Allie Redmon, the daughter of the couple's farm manager, Jouett Redmon, and become her riding horse.

Hendrickson said he and Whitney have decided they will offer double the amount of money agents receive for horses sent to slaughter on any runners they have bred that are found in jeopardy. They suggested that other owners and breeders also take action on behalf of horses they have owned who later "fall through the cracks."

"This is about lives we created," said Hendrickson, who also advocates the passage of pending federal legislation that would ban the slaughter of horses for human consumption. "We're responsible for them, and this makes all of us owners look bad." <<< http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/todays ... 6&subsec=1

[Linda in TX]

Jordan, one more word of advice <snip>.... saying "please" and "thank you" can go a long way.

Madelyn...

Jordan has concluded all of his posts with "thanks." He's also used "please" liberally.

Instead of preaching to Jordan about "common courtesy," why don'tcha direct your thoughts to a few who have taken cheap shots at him....

[magic code]

Nope, sorry, you're thinking of someone else. I'm a huge racing fan and extremely anti-slaughter. Obviously you and I disagree to an extent about that. But thank you for seeking a good home for Threefingered Jack. I wish more people would do that.

If this list of mares above are the ones that we know about and were "rescued"....how many slipped through the cracks?

Jordan, you don't need to know anything about One for the Sea. As mentioned above, get in touch with the Jockey Club and they will point you in the right direction (though it most likely won't be free.) If the Rathka lady can't or won't help you, it's probable that you won't ever find out where Pie Rise ended up. If you start running into walls, don't spend too much more time on it.

[BJ]

Well all what color was "One For The Sea" registered as?Who was her last foal by?Abstract?Please help me out here.Please and Thank You is Given to all that has helped and continue to help.Thanks all.
Thanks,
Jordan

She is registered as a Chestnut. Jockey Club can tell you her last registered foal too.

If you sign up with the Jockey Club for an online account (it is free), you can find most of these answers much more quickly.

Also, for many links to Oregon Breeding organizations and info, click here and be sure to scoll all the way to the end of the page. http://www.thoroughbredinfo.com/showcase/otba.htm

[Pan Zareta]

Well all what color was "One For The Sea" registered as?Who was her last foal by?Abstract?Please help me out here.Please and Thank You is Given to all that has helped and continue to help.Thanks all.
Thanks,
Jordan

One For The Sea is registered as a chestnut. Her last registered foal (as of the '05 APR) was a 2003chf, Cascade Locks x Cascadian. But I'm not sure why you're concerned about those facts in the context of identifying your filly's sire and dam. It can't be said any more plainly than BJ said it - you need to contact the Jockey Club if you're sincerely interested in proving her pedigree and attempting to complete her registration.

[MichaelThomson]

Nope, sorry, you're thinking of someone else. I'm a huge racing fan and extremely anti-slaughter. Obviously you and I disagree to an extent about that. But thank you for seeking a good home for Threefingered Jack. I wish more people would do that.

If this list of mares above are the ones that we know about and were "rescued"....how many slipped through the cracks?

We don't disagree at all...slaughter should be ended. This Administration blatantly ignored the will of the people on this issue.

It was a diffcult process to get Jack a new home, and he was young and healthy and looked great. In the end, it would've been a lot easier to send him to the feedlot for you all to rescue...The emotional angle provides an economic "floor" for the unwanted animals. The question is, what happens when slaughter is finally outlawed? what happens when you don't have names on paperwork to call out and make you feel better? Those of us who breed & race thoroughbreds put our names on the paperwork, and yet so many of you on these forums get to call us out hiding behind made- up handles.

By "calling out" the people who do not participate in donation adoption (and instead sell to other breeders, trainers, or horsetraders like the feedlot man), you do the horses no favors. It scares people away from rescue and placement organizations, for fear they will be judged for the horse's condition, health, or for even sending them to the track at all. I know this because I talk to people. They fear being judged. How would you feel if your judgement caused someone to directly place a horse on the meat truck themselves, with no other chance for survival?

I am telling you as a breeder, as an owner, as an anti-slaughter advocate, and the guy who loses a lot of money to get these horses to good homes, that you need to re-think your methods. You have a lot of anger towards Mr. Peterson. Have you ever thought about calling him up and asking "I see you've got some horses you don't want anymore. How can I help?"

[BJ]

We don't disagree at all...slaughter should be ended. This Administration blatantly ignored the will of the people on this issue.

I'm not Magic Code, but let me publicly thank you for your support in ending horse slaughter.

It was a diffcult process to get Jack a new home, and he was young and healthy and looked great. In the end, it would've been a lot easier to send him to the feedlot for you all to rescue...The emotional angle provides an economic "floor" for the unwanted animals.

If the Rescues could save them all, the discussion and problem would end there. It doesn't. They cannot save them all. They cannot save but a minute fraction of all that end up there.

I sense, YOU understand that all too well and THAT IS WHY you worked hard to place "Jack". You did the honorable thing. That is one of many honorable things that all in this industry CAN and should do.

The question is, what happens when slaughter is finally outlawed? what happens when you don't have names on paperwork to call out and make you feel better? Those of us who breed & race thoroughbreds put our names on the paperwork, and yet so many of you on these forums get to call us out hiding behind made- up handles.

Again, I personally want to thank you and applaud for how you handled placing "Jack". YOU set a wonderful example!

There are many ways to solve the problems and many answers to your questions. People just need to stop HIDING BEHIND the excuses...the worst of which is fear of judgment, IMO. How can anyone be judged badly for:

1. "breeding responsibly", which could entail everything from NOT breeding that cheap mare or stallion who has a 1 in a million shot to succeed, to very selectively breeding, to setting up a fund to care for and/or find homes for the horses one breeds;

2. "for "being willing to participate" in setting up funds where everyone pays proportionately" to either humanely dispose of unwanted, unretrainable (word?) horses, or to fund reputable organizations and people who are willing to provide decent retirement options for these horses. (Slaughter is NOT humane);

3. "for being willing to track the horses you breed and sell" and provide a stop-gap measure between the last owner/trainer and the feedlot (The Jockey Club could and SHOULD help with that);

4. "for working WITHIN the industry to set up a safety net", where all TB's (registered or not) are listed with the Jockey Club. (Horses should NOT disappear from the JC database because it hasn't raced or produced in "x" amount of years);

5. "for requiring horses reported as "died" to have a signed Veterinary certificate;

6. "to humanely euthanize any horse that can't be found a home or retrained for a new career. THAT alone, would save the rescues a lot of money and space to care for horses that CAN be retrained and adopted. (Some of these horses are so butchered from bad trainers running them when they should not be run...it IS criminal. And then, on top of that, they send them to slaughter...HOW can any human being that does that even sleep at night, let alone use the excuse they are afraid of being judged.) The industry SHOULD be ashamed! (Those are the types of things the "industry fund" would take care of if the trainer and/or owner can't afford to euthanize the horse...but they should also lose their license to own and train, as that would fall under failing to be financially responsible, IMO;

7. "for lobbying your politicians for TAX BREAKS for those of you/us in the industry who DO act responsibly and take away the Breeder's Awards "as penalty" for those who do not breed responsibly; (Breeding 215 mares to one stallion is NOT responsible, COOLMORE, et al!) Only in this industry (and human welfare) are people rewarded for being irresponsible and uncaring.)

etc., etc., etc. There are so many ways we could stop slaughter and handle all the horses (at least in the TB industry).

It won't happen over night. But protecting those who claim to be afraid to "try" to do right because of fear of being judged is definitely NOT a step in the right direction...I'm sorry...I really don't get that one. Especially from one who is clearly as intelligent and caring as YOU are. Protect the innocent (horses). Applaud the efforts of the brave and willing. (You and others like you.)

You have PROVEN, that any individual who takes the time and makes the effort to keep a horse from slaughter, will succeed.

A few changes to the "system" will work wonders to RETRAIN the humans to act a little more responsibly and to actually be PROUD of being judged for their actions and to be rewarded for those good actions as well. But for anything to really change, it has to be a TEAM/industry-wide effort.

So, I have a hard time believing that "those who are afraid of being judged", really want to do the right thing, because it all has to start somewhere. I'm happy to have an amnesty for any former kill pen supplier, so long as they turn over a totally new leaf. The industry should drum the bad guys out themselves.

By "calling out" the people who do not participate in donation adoption (and instead sell to other breeders, trainers, or horsetraders like the feedlot man), you do the horses no favors. It scares people away from rescue and placement organizations, for fear they will be judged for the horse's condition, health, or for even sending them to the track at all. I know this because I talk to people. They fear being judged. How would you feel if your judgement caused someone to directly place a horse on the meat truck themselves, with no other chance for survival?

See the above. As to that last sentence...no one has any excuse for failing to take the time to try to place a horse or to spend the money to euthanize it. If people cannot afford to euthanize a horse it cannot place, they can't afford to be breeding, owning or training horses. That is the bottom line. There is NO valid excuse for anyone putting a horse on the meat truck. There is no better time than today to do one thing, to take one step to change the ugly habits of this industry, in using slaughter as a means of horse population control.

I am telling you as a breeder, as an owner, as an anti-slaughter advocate, and the guy who loses a lot of money to get these horses to good homes, that you need to re-think your methods. You have a lot of anger towards Mr. Peterson. Have you ever thought about calling him up and asking "I see you've got some horses you don't want anymore. How can I help?"

I can't speak for Magic Code or anyone but myself and some "rescue orgs", I personally know of, that work QUITE diligently to privately contact owners, trainers, breeders who have "at risk horses" to "help" to place those horses or at least let them know there IS another way.

It may not be easy. It may not be free...But WHAT GOOD and "WORTHWHILE" in life, ever is?

Again...thank you so much for your efforts and your example.

BJ

[AfleetAlex#1fan]

Well if the 2003 foal of One For The Sea wasnt Abstract then it must not be One For The Sea.Im not sure if if its Pie Rise.The Jockey Club wont give me the VGL Case #`s for DNA typing my filly I even asked politley.Any other possible mares that you know of that were bred to Abstract and produced a foal and might not be in the 2003 Live Foal Report please let me know of the mare also any other info at all on this topic please let me know.Please and Thank You.
Thanks,
Jordan

[BJ]

Well if the 2003 foal of One For The Sea wasnt Abstract then it must not be One For The Sea.Im not sure if if its Pie Rise.The Jockey Club wont give me the VGL Case #`s for DNA typing my filly I even asked politley.Any other possible mares that you know of that were bred to Abstract and produced a foal and might not be in the 2003 Live Foal Report please let me know of the mare also any other info at all on this topic please let me know.Please and Thank You.
Thanks,
Jordan

Jordan,

How did you come by this mare? PM me if you don't want to post this info publicly.

Does your MARE have a lip tattoo? The Jockey Club can trace who SHE is via the tattoo. It is FREE as long as you don't want race records, etc. It will give you the name! So...go pull up her upper lip and get her tattoo number.

[AfleetAlex#1fan]

She dosent have a lip tattoo wish she did.Someone else metioned this mare saying Steven Peterson once owned her go back to pg: 3 and you should be able to find it.Any othere mare(s) info or etc.. that can lead to my horses mother would be great I still also need the VGL Case #`s as the Jockey Clubs says they cant give them out I dont get how I can DNA type my mare now.Is there such thing as a DNA typing were they dont have a lip tattoo and you dont know her mother and/or father "I do know her father"
Thanks,
Jordan