Congrats to stand in Florida

[Derby2004]

Congrats will stand in 2007 at Cloverleaf Farms. What does everyone think of his chances at stud given pedigree? He is a full brother to Claiborne Farms Flatter. Why would Claiborne send a G2 winner and multiple graded stakes winner to Florida instead of keeping him in Ky and sending Flatter to Florida? That doesnt make sense to me. Congrats has a world of more appeal to me than Flatter. Longer race career, better race record and to me, better looking. Does anyone have any info on Congrats such as sale price, height, confirmation flaws. I would be quick to send a mare to him. My only hold back is that Cloverleaf is not too great at selecting mares for their studs and that hurts the stallion in the long run. Thoughts?

[LaTroienne]

I wonder...Flatter was stakes placed and he was a SW.... Hmm... He has prospects.

[Derby2004]

Maybe I am missing the point of your context LaTroienne. Flatter was stakes placed at 4 one time, he has no foals of racing age, so he cant have a SW. Congrats was multiple graded stakes placed and a GSW. So which would you chance on between these two. If I am reading your post wrong, please excuse me.

[Derby2004]

OK, Im a bit on the dumbass side tonight. I went back and reread the post, Flatter was SP and Congrats was a SW. I thought you wrote he has a SW. Sorry.

[austique]

I'm expecting a Flatter in June and even I would rathar have Congrats unless he's hideously deformed

[LaTroienne]

Maybe I am missing the point of your context LaTroienne. Flatter was stakes placed at 4 one time, he has no foals of racing age, so he cant have a SW. Congrats was multiple graded stakes placed and a GSW. So which would you chance on between these two. If I am reading your post wrong, please excuse me.

sorry...I meant that Congrats was a SW and his brother Flatter was a stakes-placed male, yet Flatter is at Claiborne and Congrats in Florida.

[Betsy]

Flatter was much more brilliant horse than Congrats, and I loved Congrats (well, I adored both of them). Congrats has been a huge disappointment to me, despite being a graded stakes winner. It just seemed as if he should be better than he was.

Flatter could flat-out run; I think he's a better stallion prospect than Congrats and I think they made the right choice. They must think pretty highly of him (and his foals must be getting good reviews) if they didn't even consider bringing Congrats to KY..........

Derby2004, IMO, just because Congrats had the longer career doesn't mean he was a better horse. Flatter won most of his starts (I think he only lost once, and it was a very good 3rd in the Washington Park Handicap at Arlington). His record (albeit in far fewer starts) was much better than Congrats, who (and I hate to say this as I am a fan) just wasn't that good.

[LSB]

Flatter could flat-out run; I think he's a better stallion prospect than Congrats and I think they made the right choice. They must think pretty highly of him (and his foals must be getting good reviews) if they didn't even consider bringing Congrats to KY..........

Flatter won a maiden race, a couple of allowance races and he was 3rd in a G2 at four. I confess I didn't follow his career, so I don't know whether it was a lack of talent or a lack of soundness that compromised him--but to me that doesn't sound like a horse with brilliance or a ton of ability.

I think Claiborne understandably didn't want to stand two full-brothers. They'd already committed to Flatter before Congrats started to get good, and they were probably offered enough for Congrats to make it worth their while to stick with their original choice.

[Betsy]

Flatter could flat-out run; I think he's a better stallion prospect than Congrats and I think they made the right choice. They must think pretty highly of him (and his foals must be getting good reviews) if they didn't even consider bringing Congrats to KY..........

Flatter won a maiden race, a couple of allowance races and he was 3rd in a G2 at four. I confess I didn't follow his career, so I don't know whether it was a lack of talent or a lack of soundness that compromised him--but to me that doesn't sound like a horse with brilliance or a ton of ability.

I think Claiborne understandably didn't want to stand two full-brothers. They'd already committed to Flatter before Congrats started to get good, and they were probably offered enough for Congrats to make it worth their while to stick with their original choice.

Understood, LSB -I did follow his career. It was the manner in which Flatter won his races that showed how very talented he was. Of course, there is a big difference between being a talented allowance runner and winning important stakes, but it was clear in his races that the innate ability was there. He won his races easily and in fast time - the one time he had a chance to show his class, he did run a good race in the Washington Park Handicap. Personally, I think his trainer made a huge mistake running him in that one - he'd come off of (I believe) one allowance win (and that off of an injury dictated layoff) and was jumping way up in class and distance. To run third was an accomplishment......but he never got to build on it.

I figure that Claiborne must have been very happy with the ability he showed or else they would have sold him for stud duty elsewhere - why bother with a mere allowance winner? I certainly think he deserves the chance and I'm glad he's in KY. Congrats, IMO, was at his best when he won his debut at the Spa as a 2 year old; I was convinced that he was a TC contender. Unfortunately he got injured and missed many months; whether that compromised his race record thereafter, I don't know.

I guess what I'm saying is that I would be more willing to take chances with Flatter's ability (although unproven racing class) than with Congrats, who already proved he just wasn't that great. As an Indy fan, however, I'm certainly rooting for them both to do well.

[Derby2004]

I have to disagree about Flatter. He is not close to his brother in class. Congrats was a better race horse. Flatter obviously had a soundness problem, hence the 6 starts, the only worth while race he ran in, he was against top racehorses, but nothing after that. Congrats ran with the best and beat the best many times, not just 6. On top of that Flatter's babies are not even selling worth a crap. The best was a 40k weanling. Claiborne would have nothing to lose and all to gain by sending Flatter else where and bringing in the more talented and better looking Congrats. Has anyone found any info on Congrats? Such as a sell price or did he race as a homebred for Claiborne and Adelle? May even his height?

[austique]

Congrats raced as a homebred.

[Betsy]

You and I will just have to disagree, Derby. Congrats never beat the best , he never came close to it. Obviously Claiborne disagrees with you or else they would have found a way to get rid of Flatter. I don't care what Flatter's offspring sell for - I'll go to my grave believing he was the more talented brother.

Congrats' last several races have been atrocious- and I'm a fan of his. I'm being objective- he just wasn't that talented. I don't think he'd get a very good book if he was standing in KY - he might get a decent book in Florida, and I hope he does.

[austique]

I can say that Flatter has been well-subcribed early on. Maybe my gamble will pay off

[LaTroienne]

http://cloverleaffarms2.com/images/clov ... stview=1&/

Why isn't Congrats there?

[LSB]

http://cloverleaffarms2.com/images/cloverleaffarms2.com/default.aspx?contentname=home%20page&horselistview=1&/

Why isn't Congrats there?

Because that's the 2006 roster of stallions and he won't be available until 2007.