Is the superior producer the stallion or mare?

[louis finochio]

When TB breeders breed their mare to the same stallion and get a bushel of superior runners, the TB breeder doesnt know if the mare is the superior producer or the stallion is.

That is one of the disavantages of breeding the same mare to the same stallion.

When the mare is bred to different stallions, and continues to produce those superior runners, the mare is the catalyst in those matings.

Some mares when bred to different stallions will fire blanks. As the mare is not a superior producer.

[griff]

Are you saying a mare has to be able to nick with all bloodlikes in order to a superior producer ??

That's like saying a stallion must produce stakes winner from all bloodlines to be a worthy stallion. mailbu Moon and Distorted Hunor were moved into the high rent fee arena by producing only one superior winner. Why does not the mare deserve that same privilage?

griff

[louis finochio]

You can look at the APR of a BOY or Blue Hen and see why they attained that title.

Those types of mares will breed a superior runner with any sire line, as they have that mysterious nicking factor that 90 % of the breed doesnt have.

The stallions find it harder to breed a high % of superior runners with different sire lines, as some of those sire lines will not nick with those lines.

Malibu Moon is not a consistent producing stallion, for every superior runner MM is firing too many blanks.

[Keith]

right mixture
Halo-Ballade
Saint Ballado
Devil's Bag
Glorious Song

right mixture
Cee's Tizzy-Cee's Song
Tiznow
Budroyale
Tizbud
Tizdubai

right mixture
Nantallah-Rough Shod II
Lt. Stevens
Ridan
Moccasin
Thong

Ribot-Flower Bowl
His Majesty
Graustark

Bull Lea-Two Bob
Miz Clementine
Two Lea
Twosy

Great Sire + Great Mare
Althea by Alydar-Courtly Dee by Never Bend
A.P. Indy by Seattle Slew-Weekend Surprise by Secretariat
Awesome Again by Deputy Minister-Primal Force by Blushing Groom
Bee Ann Mac by Blue Larkspur-La Troienne by Teddy
Belle Of Troy by Blue Larkspur-La Troienne by Teddy
Big Event by Blue Larkspur-La Troienne by Teddy
Big Hurry by Black Toney-La Troienne by Teddy
Bimelech by Black Toney-La Troienne by Teddy
Black Helen by Black Toney-La troienne by Teddy
Businesslike by Blue Larkspur-La Troienne by Teddy
Charming Lassie by Seattle Slew-Lassie Dear by Buckpasser
Chester House by Mr. Prospector-Toussaud by El Gran Senor
Chief's Crown by Danzig-Six Crowns by Secretariat
Baldski by Nijinsky II-Too Bald by Bald Eagle
Bold Reason by Hail To Reason-Lalun by Djeddah
Bull Dog by Teddy-Plucky Liege by Spearmint
Capote by Seattle Slew-Too Bald by Bald Eagle
Chieftain by Bold Ruler-Pocohontas by Roman
Dance Number by Northern Dancer-Numbered Account by Buckpasser
Desert Wine by Damascus-Anne Campbell by Never Bend
Easy Goer by Alydar-Relaxing by Buckpasser
Empire Maker by Unbridled-Toussaud by El Gran Senor
Fairy King by Northern Dancer-Fairy Bridge by Bold Reason
Fighting Fox by Sir Gallahad III-Marguerite by Celt
Galileo by Sadler's Wells-Urban Sea by Miswaki
Gallant Fox by Sir Gallahad III-Marguerite by Celt
Glamour by Nasrullah-Striking by War Admiral
Halo by Hail To Reason-Cosmah by Cosmic Bomb
Hero's Honor by Northern Dancer-Glowing Tribute by Graustark
Hill Prince by Princequillo-Hildene by Bubbling Over
Honest Lady by Seattle Slew-Toussaud by El Gran Senor
Hyperion by Gainsborough-Selene by Chaucer
Intriguing by Swaps-Glamour by Nasrullah
Kingmambo by Mr. Prospector-Miesque by Nureyev
Lady Juror by Son-In-Law-Lady Josephine by Sundridge
Mah Mahal by Gainsborough-Mumtaz Mahal by The Tetrarch
Menow by Pharamond II-Alcibiades by Supremus
Mineshaft by A.P. Indy-Prospector's Delite by Mr. Prospector
Miz Clementine by Bull Lea-Two Bob by The Porter
Mumtaz Begum by Bleinheim II-Mumtaz Mahal by The Tetrarch
Mumtaz Mahal by The Tetrarch-Lady Josephine by Sundridge
Nasrullah by Nearco-Mumtaz Begum by Blenheim II
Natalma by Native Dancer-Almahmoud by Mahmoud
Never Bend by Nasrullah-Lalun by Djeddah
Nureyev by Northern Dancer-Special by Forli
On-and-On by Nasrullah-Two Lea by Bull Lea
Pharamond II by Phalaris-Selene by Chaucer
Poker by Round Table-Glamour by Nasrullah
Private Account by Damascus-Numbered Account by Buckpasser
Raja Baba by Bold Ruler-Missy Baba by My Babu
Royal Academy by Nijinsky II-Crimson Saint by Crimson Satan
Sadler's Wells by Northern Dancer-Fairy Bridge by Bold Reason
Salamania by Man O War-Alcibiades by Supremus
Secretariat by Bold Ruler-Somethingroyal by Princequillo
Sickle by Phalaris-Selene by Chaucer
Sir Gallahad III by Teddy-Plucky Liege by Spearmint
Slew O Gold by Seattle Slew-Alluvial by Buckpasser
Special by Forli-Thong by Nantallah
Tom Rolfe by Ribot-Pocohontas by Roman
Two Lea by Bull Lea-Two Bob by The Porter
Twosy by Bull Lea-Two Bob by The Porter
What a Pleasure by Bold Ruler-Grey Flight by Mahmoud
Wild Applause by Northern Dancer-Glowing Tribute by Graustark



superior sire
Alydar
A.P. Indy
Bleinheim II
Blushing Groom
Bold Ruler
Buckpasser
Bull Lea
Danehill
Danzig
Deputy Minister
Hail To Reason
Hyperion
El Prado
Fappiano
Gone West
Mr. Prospector
Nasrullah
Nearco
Nijinsky II
Northern Dancer
Phalaris
Pharos
Sadler's Wells
Seattle Slew
Sir Gallahad II
St. Simon
Teddy

Superior Producers
Alcibiades
Almahmoud
Aspidistra
Ballade
Bloodroot
Cold Hearted
Cosmah
Courtly Dee
Dear Birdie
Exclusive
Fall Aspen
Flower Bowl
Glamour
Glorious Song
Glowing Tribute
Grey Flight
Hildene
Lalun
La Troienne
Mumtaz Begum
Mumtaz Mahal
My Charmer
Natalma
Numbered Account
Pocohontas
Prospector's Delite
Rough Shod II
Selene
Shenanigans
Somethingroyal
Special
Striking
Sweet Tooth
Tamerett
Too Bald
Toussaud
Two Bob
Two Lea
Willamae
Weekend Surprise

I know alot of horses I have not listed

Keith

[louis finochio]

To Keith: When you can find those Blue Hens and superior producer mares, you will take a short cut through the woods to grandma's house.

Their is a way to find them before every other TB breeder does. I have been a student of eyesign for many years, and the TB eye holds the secret to a stallion or mares producing ability.

Thanks for your quality post of superior producing TB. Yours in Sport Louis.

[Colonel]

Which list would HASILI go on?

Regards

[Keith]

Hasili is definitely a superior producer

Hasili by Kahyasi-Kerali by High Line She contains the bloodlines of Nijinsky II, Blushing Groom, Roberto, and Hyperion. There are 4 Epsom Derby winners in her pedigree including
Kahyasi-Epsom Derby, Irish Derby
Nijinsky II-English Triple Crown Winner
Roberto-Epsom Derby, Benson and Hedges Gold Cup
Hyperion-Epsom Derby, St. Leger

She is a superior producer as she is the dam of 2 Breeder's Cup Filly Mare and Turf winners in Banks Hill and Intercontinental. She is the dam of two champions.

Banks Hill by Danehill-Hasili
Champion Turf Mare
Breeder's Cup Filly Mare and Turf S.
Coronation S.
Prix Jacques Le Marois

Intercontinental by Danehill-Hasili
Champion Turf Mare
Breeder's Cup Filly Mare and Turf S.
Matriarch S.

Heat Haze by Green Desert-Hasili
Winner of $1,183,696
Matriarch S.-Gr. I
Beverly D. S.-Gr. I

Cacique by Danehill-Hasili
Prix Daniel Wildenstein-(Fr-G2)
Prix Daphnis-(Fr-G3)


Klepto is another superior producer and the dam of 3 champions
Klepto by No Robbery-Blue Burr by Beau Gar

Criminal Type by Alydar-Klepto
Horse of The Year
Pimlico Special
Hollywood Gold Cup
Metropolitan H.
Broodmare sire of Ten Most Wanted won Travers 2nd Belmont S.

Estrapade by Vaguely Noble-Klepto
Champion Turf Mare
Budweiser-Arlington Million
Oak Tree Inv. S.
Yellow Ribbon Inv. S.
Santa Ana H.
Gamely H.

Can Miss Mambo by Kingmambo-Troika by Strawberry Road whose 2nd dam is Estrapade bring this productive family back. Couldn't you imagine if Miss Mambo was bred to El Prado or Sadler's Wells.

Isopach by Reviewer-Klepto
Champion 3 Year Old in Italy

I would definitely say these are two superior producers


Keith

[Keith]

Slightly Dangerous by Roberto-Where You Lead by Raise a Native

She is the dam of
1. Commander in Chief by Dancing Brave
won Epsom Derny, Irish Derby
2. Warning by Known Fact
won Queen Elizabeth 2nd S. -Eng-Gr1,Sussex S.-Eng-Gr1
3. Deploy by Shirley Heights
2nd Irish Derby
4. Dushyantor by Sadler's Wells
2nd Epsom Derby, St. Leger
5. Yashmak by Danzig
won Flower Bowl Inv. H.-Gr. I

Beautiful Bid by Baldski-Biddy Big by Bet Big
dam of
1. Beautiful Pleasure by Maudlin
won Breeder's Cup Distaff and $2,734,078
2. Mecke by Maudlin
won Arlington Million and $2,460,280
Beautiful Bid definitely does not nick well with Seattle Slew.

Keith