More Stud Fees Announced

[LSB]

Speightstown is $40,000

Fusaichi Pegasus: $100,000

Giant's Causeway: $135,000

I have to say I thought after the Sprint win that Speightstown would come back higher. With his pedigree, I find him to be a very appealing commercial prospect at the price.

I was also surprised to see that Coolmore priced Giant's Causeway so much higher than FuPeg based, I would imagine, on his success this year in europe. Still, I don't think their records--and their current appeal to the market--are that far apart.

Also, does anyone have any thoughts on Ashford's new horse Monashee Mountain (priced at 10K)?

[Karie]

I like Monashee Mountain cause he is by Danzig.. not sure what he looks like- but here is his info

Monashee Mountain had 7 starts with 4 wins 3 being stakes 1999 1st Rochestown S. (Ire) 2000 1st Loughbrown S. (Ire) 2000 1st Desert King Ebf Tetrarch S. -G3 (Ire) Earning just $110,635

He's by Danzig and His Dam Prospectors Delight (by Mr. P) produced Mineshaft, Rockslide, Tomisue's Delight & Delta Music....

Monashee Mountain's LEADING RUNNERS:

=KAY TWO (IRE) (2002 C, by =SONG (GB)) $0 in NA. 3 wins at 2, $110,247, in UK. 1st Tipperary S. (Ire), 2nd Marble Hill S. (Ire), 3rd Cornwallis S. -G3 (Eng).
=LE GIARE (IRE) (2002 C, by =MTOTO (GB)) $0 in NA. 5 wins at 2, $156,777, in Ity. 1st Pr Rumon (Ity), 1st Pr Guido Berardelli -G3 (Ity).
=DON PELE (IRE) (2002 C, by BIGSTONE (IRE)) $0 in NA. 2 wins at 2, $35,577, in UK. 1st Nayef Rose Bowl S. (Eng).
=WOODCOTE (IRE) (2002 C, by =MAIN REEF (GB)) $0 in NA. Winner at 2, $13,406, in UK. 3rd Rockingham S. (Eng).
=MAKUTI (IRE) (2002 F, by =AHONOORA (GB)) $0 in NA. Winner at 2, $38,759, in UK.
=FURSTENBERG (IRE) (2002 C, by =KALDOUN (FR)) $0 in NA. Winner at 2, $33,872, in Ger.
=MONASHEE STAR (IRE) (2002 G, by SEATTLE DANCER) $0 in NA. Winner at 2, $29,865, in UK.
=OLIGARCH (IRE) (2002 C, by SADDLERS' HALL (IRE)) $0 in NA. Winner at 2, $27,206, in UK.
=MONASHEE ROSE (IRE) (2002 F, by ZAFONIC) $0 in NA. 2 wins at 2, $20,332, in UK.
=MONASHEE PRINCE (IRE) (2002 G, by LYCIUS) $0 in NA. Winner at 2, $10,564, in UK.


In The Stud - MONASHEE MOUNTAIN, 1997
--------By Crops (All Seasons)--------- Seasons (All Crops)
Wnrs $ Crop Av Per Wnrs
Yr Fls Rnrs (Sws) Earnings Rnr Yr (Wins) Earnings
===============================================
2002 46 40 10( 3) 539,436 13,486 2004 10( 18) 539,436

Sire Summary

1 Crops Lifetime Current
Starters (/Foals) 87% 87%
Winners (/Foals) 22% 22%
Winners (/Starters) 25% 25%

Total Starts 174 174
Total Wins (/Starts) 10% 10%

Total Earnings $539,436 $539,436
Ave Earnings/Starter $13,486 $13,486
Ave Earnings/Start $3,100 $3,100
Median Earnings $1,291 $1,291

Blacktype Wnrs(/Foals) 7% 7%
Blacktype Wnrs(/Strs) 8% 8%
Blacktype Horses(/Foals) 9% 9%
Blacktype Horses(/Strs) 10% 10%

Sup Runners (/Foals) 0% 0%
Sup Runners (/Startrs) 0% 0%

Ave # Years Raced 1.00 1.00
Ave Starts/Year 4.35 4.35

[FOS]

Hi LSB

Speightstown...although very fast and the beneficiary of a big pedigree...could be surprisingly "dangerous" to breed to.

His neck is so heavy and thick...(and some Taylor Made insiders will specifically refer to it as short...which it actually appears to be)...that it would be unwise to ignore the possible ramifications.

The Taylor Made / WinStar guys set the fee at $40,000...but I believe that's a lot of money for him (taking everything into account)...although you can be certain Taylor Made (particularly) will mesmerize many of their clients into breeding to Speightstown...the same clients that were lured to Exploit at $25k...then Artax at $30k...then were lured into throwing away another $35k by breeding to Our Emblem...and were "suckered" into paying $125k for Saint Ballado...when he was undeserving.

Many breeders seem to have figured it out though...that with Taylor Made you are often traveling (the wrong way) down a one-way-street. But others apparently keep going back for more.

It is clear that Taylor Made consistently prices the stallions (they are involved in) at a level where there is little room for the "client" to do well (unless everything goes perfectly)...or even get out...

...Maybe that's why Forestry was raised to $75k...to help create the perception of value in Speightstown at $40,000.

LSB...if you (or others) decide to go for it...please be extremely careful (possibly much moreso than usual) which mare you select...a lot will be riding on it.

Good luck to you always.

Respectfully

[Ruffian]

LMAO OH MY GOD, I THINK I AM GOING TO DIE!!!

COOLMORE SENT MONASHEE MOUNTAIN TO US????

WAS HE WORTH THE PLANE FARE????

You could get a season to him for free if you sent a couple of mares to Coolmore Ire....

OH DEAR.... Yet another Coolmore ....Cringemore....

[FOS]

Hi Ruffian

Can't imagine him having any appeal whatsoever.

Respectfully

[el camino]

FOS,
Have not noticed his neck. Why would that be a deterent to breed to him? Is it really that abnormal? it obviously did'nt bother him any.

[Heidilady]

wow thanks FOS, it's always good to know this kind of thing. You put to words what I kinda had a feeling on and didn't know it.

Yeah I didn't like horses like Exploit that you mentioned, esp. for the price, but that's always something I wonder if I'm just crazy and they really are worth that and I'm missing something. One thing that's sure to turn me off is the neck/head thickness, whatever the hype.

hey can you do me a favor and look at Came Home's picture on this database? something's making me make a face and I can't put my finger on it...I remember when he was on the track I loved his delicate head at the time. So different out of a bridle, hmm. Also at the time he was racing, I thought Harlan's Holiday had the ugliest head ever but it's not as bad on the pic I see here. I get this weird image of his build (esp. head) as a hunter/jumper...again, crazy?

Trying so hard to learn more about conformation so I don't get bilked..very important If I'm gonna get into this industry, can't throw away money...gonna have so much going down a hole as it is, at least make it educated so I don't feel as bad w/me being stupid and knowing how sloppy I'd be doing something.

[ef]

I fail to understand how Monashee Mountain has, to paraphrase FOS, "no appeal whatsoever." This horse was a 1 million yearling, by Danzig out of Prospector's Delight, making him a half-brother to Mineshaft, etc, etc. He was a nice and precocious racehorse (GSW).


Most importantly, he has made a very nice freshman sire in Europe, given his opportunity: he has sired 4 SWs, 1 graded, from at least 12 winners.


While I have never seen the horse, Danzigs that bring that amount of money are often quite attractive.

I've certainly seen worse prospects for the same/more money!

[Sandi in Florida]

FOS--his neck doesn't bother me at all--I'd rather see a big, strong neck than a little skinny one--hate skinny necks. You wanna see a big neck, check out Secretariat's neck in his pic under his pedigree--now THAT's a neck! Worked for him jes fine. I'm not convinced a big neck is a strong genetic trait--Speightstown didn't get it from his sire--did he get it from his dam? Or did it just "happen"? What are the chances he'll pass it to all his foals? Guess we'll have to wait and see!

[Karie]

I have a pic of Speightstown That i took at the breeders cup.... Grrr there is a man walking next to him and in way of the view of his neck....

here it is : http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-11/876017/speightstown.jpg

[FOS]

Hi sandi in florida

You said..."I'm not convinced a big neck is a strong genetic trait--Speightstown didn't get it from his sire--did he get it from his dam? Or did it just "happen"?"

Very interesting you ask that...and interesting you also said..."You wanna see a big neck, check out Secretariat's neck in his pic under his pedigree--now THAT's a neck!"

Consider this...Secretariat...is found both top and bottom in Speightstown's pedigree. Speightstown is by Gone West (who is out of Secrettame...by Secretariat)...and Speightstown is out of a Storm Cat mare (and Storm Cat is out of Terlingua...by Secretariat).

Regarding a heavy neck...that is a feature on a foal that does not strongly favor the premise that a classic horse is in store...but the reality is that Speightstown was a $2 mil yearling...and the "neck" did not stand in the way of his success. But his success was limited to sprint distances...and he did not excell until age six...

...just some food for thought.

Don't get me wrong...Speightstown brings plenty to the table...but his neck is so darn thick and heavy (and appears to be short also) that I believe it must be taken into account when selecting an appropriate mare to possibly breed to him...expecially if you are looking to get the two turn horse.

You obviously remember the kind of sire that Secretariat was. After considering the above...is it unreasonable to expect that you might agree that the comparison does not bode well for Speightstown.

Regardless...he will get a HUGE opportunity...despite the "neck."

Respectfully

[George William Smith]

An acquaintance of mine try to buy him from Coolmore for 1.5 million as a syndicate a couple of years ago, but they would not let him go then [to stand in Maryland].

Sharp Irish client of mine bred to him this year with one of his good mares and has been very happy with his European results.

Honestly, some of you on this list that claim to speak for others by protecting them from bad horses should heavily emphasize that is is their OPINION so one cannot be confused with what one thinks and what one knows.

I learned that lesson the hard way, by actually buying and racing the products and not merely sitting there as a non-participant. That's why I love some of the opinions that flow from this list. They are actually spending their own money to improve the sport, rather than babble on as want-to-bes.

[Sandi in Florida]

George, SAY WHAT??? Who crapped in your cereal this morning?

FOS--You know, I was sort of wondering if Speightstown does, in fact, have Sec's neck. Maybe it IS a genetic trait. Still doesn't bother me that much though--there are lots of conformational faults I find far more disturbing.

[Mahubah]

[quote="FOS"]You obviously remember the kind of sire that Secretariat was. After considering the above...is it unreasonable to expect that you might agree that the comparison does not bode well for Speightstown.

Forgive me, FOS, but you seem to be implying that Secretariat was a stud failure. While he did not live up to the high expectations placed on him, he was no dud either, especially since it took nearly half his stud career for his connections to figure out what type of mares he needed and adjust accordingly. Most stud managers would love to have a "failure" on their hands that got 9% SWs from foals (including 2 HOYs) and led the US broodmare sire list once. Further, thanks to maternal grandsons Storm Cat, A.P. Indy, Chief's Crown. Dehere, Gone West, and Summer Squall, his influence on the breed appears likely to be greater than that of quite a few sires who had better stats.

Secretariat, by the way, may have inherited his cresty neck from Bold Ruler's maternal grandsire Discovery, a magnificent handicapper who has also had his greatest influence on the breed primarily through his maternal grandsons and was not an exceptional sire of winners. If this is in fact an omen for Speightstown, I'd sure want to snag his daughters as fast as they became available!

[Ruffian]

George are you referring to me? If you are, I don't sit as a non-participant want-to-be, if you read my post you'll understand where I am coming from- if it wasn't directed at me have a great day