What are Good Nijinsky Nicks?

[Pete]

Hi Jon,

There are a lot of Fappiano line sires like Grindstone that might be useful but Real Quiet is a good object lesson because he has so much in common with Impetuous.

I'd still go for a proven stallion that can fulfill my goals and that has a proven affinity for the pedigree content that Impetuous has, and if that's an outcross, so be it.

Regards,

Pete

[Keith]

Here is a stallion I would consider
Golden Gear by Gulch-Fineza by Lypheor line breeding Killaloe the dam of Fappiano 4x4 , Mr. Prospector 3x4 and Dr. Fager 4x5x5

You may also consider a son of Holy Bull line breeding on Aspidistra through Ta Wee and Dr. Fager.

[Pete]

Hi Keith,

Golden Gear's an interesting choice on pedigree. Reinforces a lot of the blood that would seem good candidates but Golden Gear hasn't had any success with mares carrying the lines that Impetuous does. If you take a look at his best progeny I think you'll see what I mean.

I don't know that Holy Bull carries the blood to reinforce the pedigree.

Regards,

Pete

[kimberley mine]

Jon,

Your mare needs to take a Wild Risk! This french stamina influence has combined exceptionally well with the blood on your dam line, and if anything will pull the best from the damline without more inbreeding, it's him. I haven't done enough research to find out if the key strain on your mare line is Intentionally, Rough'n Tumble, or Aspidistra, but consider the following:

Champion Unbridled (Fappiano over Le Fabuleux mare)
Champion Macho Uno (Holy Bull over Blushing Groom mare)
Champion Housebuster (Mt Livermore over a Great Above mare)
Gr-1 winner Cahill Road (Fappiano over Le Fabuleux mare)
Gr-1 winner Too Chic (Blushing Groom over Dr Fager mare)
Gr-1 City Zip (Carson City over Relaunch mare)
G2 Frisco View (Mt Livermore over Great Above mare)
Gr1pl Transcendental (Mt Livermore over Fappiano mare)
SW Bop (Rahy over Fappiano mare)
SP Desiderosa (Mt Livermore over Fappiano mare, 2nd dam by Great Above)

...and the good winners Strandhill (Holy Bull over Carson City mare), Real Special (Mt Livermore over In Reality mare, 34 starts), Sheryar (Mt Livermore over In Reality mare, 86 starts), etc. I'm sure there are more but it is 8am and my brain is not fully on yet. Point being that QUALITY runners with this cross keep popping up over and over, across generations, and with those names all over the pedigree like a two-year-old kid throwing paint at a wall. The three most common conduits for Wild Risk are Unbridled (through Le Fabuleux), Carson City (whose BMS is Blushing Groom), and Blushing Groom himself. For your mare, Unbridled is obviously out (2x3 to Fappiano, plus soundness concerns) and Carson City is similarly close with Mr P. That leaves Blushing Groom himself.

Here are some ideas. I have no idea where in the country you are, so they are all over the map.

ORIENTATE is probably well out of your price range, but he has everything your mare could want...Blushing Groom up top AND Nodouble on the bottom.

RUNAWAY GROOM may also be out of your price range, but he has two stakes winners out of the same Great Above mare. Very solid production.

SERVICE STRIPE has Blushing Groom as his damsire, and his family has combined with Dr Fager/Wild Risk in the past to the tune of Broken Vow. Has gotten some decent runners with limited early opportunity, but now that he's in KY hasn't kept up so well.

BOP by Rahy brings in Blushing Groom, but this cross would be 3x3 to Fappiano.

[kimberley mine]

By the way, I felt like I should clarify why I think an Unbridled-line horse is inappropriate for this mare, and why Mt. Livermore is my first choice.

Without having seen her, but with Pete's description of Palmister throwing light-bodied, unsound horses, I think that adding Unbridled to the mix is asking for trouble. Unbridled himself passed on some serious soundness problems, especially in the front end, and many of his sons have the same trouble. The mating would also be very close, with 3x3 Fappiano. While I might think about trying this with Bop, who raced sound for four years, I would seriously hesitate with, say, Grindstone, who broke down in May of his 3yo year.

Mt Livermore, on the other hand, has crossed well many times with the cross on your damline (and incidentally, with Nijinsky himself) and the foals have generally been quite sound. His son Peaks and Valleys has a stakes winner from a Holy Bull mare and several good runners from Great Above mares, including a couple with at least 30 starts.

I didn't include PEAKS AND VALLEYS on my first list for a few reasons...
(1) I forgot; (2) he's in Ontario, and I think you're in the US; and (3) he already carries a strain of Nijinsky through Green Dancer. The whole idea of linebreeding is to try and get superior genetics through superior individuals, and I don't think that Palmister is a good linebreeding conduit for Nijinsky.

PYRAMID PEAK stands in KY for $2500; his numbers are very average but he does have a stakes winner tail-female to Charedi, who carries the "Dr Fager" complex and a winner out of a Holy Bull mare.

And a shot-in-the-dark, SLEW CITY SLEW. This would be a similar cross to Evansville Slew, and SCS has the advantage that he pulls up his mares quite nicely. His son Evansville Slew is cheaper and also improves just about every mare he sees. The wild card with both of them is that Double Jay in there...it won't be a bad influence, but Double Jay was a fabulous cross with Nijinsky...would it help here? Who knows?

Anyway, best of luck to both you and Impetuous.

[Keith]

Here are other horses to consider
You may consider a son of Holly Bull
1. Macho Uno by Holy Bull-Primal Force by Blushing Groom line breeding Aspidistra 5x5x6, Mr. Prospector 4x4, Intentionally 5x5, and Rough' N Tumble 5x5
2. Woke Up Dreamin by Holy Bull-Dreamlike by Storm Cat

You could line breed Fappiano 3x4 by breeding to a son of Unbridled's Song or Grindstone
1. Song Of The Sword by Unbridled's Song-Appealing Ms Sword by Crusader Sword
2. Buddha by Unbridled's Song-Cahooters by Storm Cat
3. Songandaprayer by Unbridled's Song-Alizea by Premeirship
4. Even The Score by Unbridled's Song-Ashtabula by Rahy
5. Value Plus by Unbridled's Song-Roll Over Baby by Rollin On Over
6. Domestic Dispute by Unbridled's Song-Majestical Moment by Magesterial
7. Birdstone by Grindstone-Dear Birdie by Storm Bird
8. Ommadon by Grindstone-Missymooiloveyou by Turkoman

You may consider a son of Honour and Glory line breeding Grand Splendor 5x5
1. Put it Back by Honour and Glory-Miss Shoplifter by Exuberant
2. Take Arms by Honour and Glory-Slide by Smarten

You may also consider an outcross to a horse like Siphon who likes Nijinsky II and Mr. Prospector breeding.

You may consider adding some Blushing Groom blood
1. Candy Ride by Ride The Rails-Candy Girl by Candy Stripes line breeding Fappiano 3x4
2. Good and Tough by Carson City-Amy Be Good by Northern Raja
3. Five Star Day by Carson City-Reggie V. by Vanlandingham
4. Leroidesanimaux by Candy Stripes-Dissemble by Ahonoora
5. Kafwain by Cherokee Run-Swazi's Moment by Moment Of Hope
6. Lucky Lionel by Mt. Livermore-Crafty Nan by Crafty Prospector
7. Orientate by Mt. Livermore-Dream Team by Cox's Ridge

Keith

[LaTroienne]

Nij. was generally a stamina horse, so, if you want a sound sprinter/miler, go to a sounder line of Mr. Prospector. I'd recommend Gulch or Rhythm in that line....

If you REALLY want to go precocious, try a sound Unbridled's Song son (if you can find one). I'd recommend Even the Score or Domestic Dispute. Both stand for reasonable prices.

If you want t' do a probable outcross, try a Relaunch-line stallion.

[ragsdaj]

back from a trim class in Georgia.....

I have some more homework from all your input. Thanks all.

[GreenThumb]

Hi,

Take a look at comeonmom has cosmah, tom fool and sir ivor from female family of mt livermore

http://www.readingfarm.com

[aurora]

Here is another angle, I typically like to look at the mare's conformation and try to decipher who in her pedigree she most looks like. Then, I try to match up a stallion according to that look-alike individual. This can be most difficult since stallion photos are far and few between and even when we have one it is difficult to get a sense of how big the horse is. For your mare, from your description, she certainally doesn't take after big Nijinski, nor Forli who I think was a large horse as well. So on her top side she might be more influenced by Round Table, a son of little Princequillo. On her dam side, we have Fappiano, another large horse, Dr Fager, I'm not sure about his size but I haven't heard of him being small, then there is Cequillo, a daughter of (again) small Princequillo. So Princequillo might be your key. Hyperion, another small horse is another possibility but then that is through Forli and you might need to investigate this branch. I believe I would look for Nasrullah blood since the famed Nasrullah-Princequillo nick was so successful, alternatively, look for more Princequillo to reinforce that strain. Crossing to a Bold Ruler line stallion would get you both Princequillo and Nasrullah.

[geowarrior]

I just looked up Prince Bobby B on the database. How come he's got all these 2007 progeny? Someone been messing with his record?

[Lucy]

I just looked up Prince Bobby B on the database. How come he's got all these 2007 progeny? Someone been messing with his record?

He doesn't have them any more.

As for 'how come?'....because someone littered up the record with them, then was too lazy to delete them. Sadly, it happens all the time.

Don't mind me, folks....please do continue your discussion.

[Derring]

Jon:

What did you ever decide on?