Mr P? Seattle Slew?

[vineyridge]

Was wondering about the sound branches from each of these two progenitors. In one of Henthorn's posts on the General Discussion board, there was mention of the sound branches of Mr. P. Given the huge numbers of his offspring, are there any fairly common names to avoid? Or mares from certain lines that tend to correct his legs? How many generations away from Mr.P must one go before the P legs aren't likely to appear?

Same thing with Seattle Slew. I remember reading years ago that a Slew was going to either be very good or very bad--that breeding to him was a real crapshoot because you were just as likely to get a really bad foal as a good one. He's everywhere now; many, if not most, of his descendants are breeding. What are the Slew family flaws to look for? Part is temperament, isn't it? And part conformation? How many generations away from him before a breeder can rest easy about breeding a mare with him to a stud with him? What are his good lines?

[halfpint23]

I'm still kind of scratching my head wondering what is so awful about the Mr Prospector line as to legs.

I have a gorgeous CORRECT big mare out of a Mr P son, and her rising two years daughter (doubled to Mr P through her sire
http://www.pedigreequery.com/sweet+goldielocks
is about as perfect in the legs and feet as any horse of any breed I have seen in a long life of working and raising horses.

So, what exactly is wrong with Mr Prospector - or to more accurately put it, with the legs of his get?
(edited to fix spelling - sorry)

[FOS]

hi halfpint23

I'm still kind of scratching my head wondering what is so awful about the Mr Prospector line as to legs...

...So, what exactly is wrong with Mr Prospector - or to more accurately put it, with the legs of his get?

Mr Prospector was EXTREMELY special...to my way of thinking. Consider this...

...Mr Prospector was an extremely RARE thoroughbred stallion who consistently sired TOP runners on dirt...TOP runners on turf...TOP 2-year-olds...TOP 3-year-olds and up...TOP sprinters and classic-winners...TOP fillies...TOP colts; a VERY significant percentage of stakes winners, graded stakes-winners and G-1 winners (colts/fillies, turf/dirt, short and long etc etc)...champions upon champions...was a GREAT sire of sires...was/is a GREAT broodmare sire...and a GREAT broodmare sire of sires. Am I missing something?

To my way of thinking NO other sire has excelled in as many categories as Mr Prospector...including Northern Dancer (who [himself] proved to be relatively unimportant as a broodmare sire of sires, particularly in North America).

In the world of thoroughbreds...GREAT might be an overused word; but in the case of Mr Prospector, I submit there was none GREATER.

Respectfully

[jagger]

Mr. P has not enjoyed the success that Norther Dancer has when inbred. Mr. P has somewhere around 55 to 60 horses that won a Graded Stakes Race when inbred. Northern Dancer has around 1000.

[Sysonby]

Mr. P has not enjoyed the success that Norther Dancer has when inbred. Mr. P has somewhere around 55 to 60 horses that won a Graded Stakes Race when inbred. Northern Dancer has around 1000.

What's the sample size for both?

[jagger]

Great question, Sysonby, and of course it would be very difficult to know exact numbers. Mr. P is 9 years younger than ND but he had almost 1200 foals to ND's slightly >600. Plus, Mr. P's many sons were bred much more frequently than ND's sons. So, without exact data, a little interpolation would have to suffice. Just guessing, I would say the numbers would be about equal but if anything, I would give the nod to Mr. P for having more descendants because of the more frequent breeding of stallions that has come into fashion.

[Rokeby Forever]

I'm no fan of Seattle Slew as a grandstallion. AP Indys are either either very good or very bad, Slew o'Gold was a bust, Houston was a bust, Capote was an overpriced stallion, and too many sons like Williamstown standing for $2,500 pollute the gene pool. Slew City Slew is a sire that I love, but he's more a "breed to race" type and a good value at $6,000 - I don't think he's the typical Seattle Slew stallion being discussed on this thread.

Just wondering - when the heck is Roberto going to be recognized as a truly great stallion? Yes, Roberto strain horses are headstrong, but there's no tougher, sounder, classier blood in the business. As far as his sons at stud, give me a Red Ransom or Dynaformer over any Seattle Slew/Mr P stallion offspring out there.

[jagger]

Barbaro being the notable exception, of course.

[jagger]

Graded Stakes Placed Offspring in 2006: Mr. P sire line - 234. Seattle Slew Sire Line - 55. Roberto sire line - 28. Roberto is one year older than Mr. P but started out with about 600 less foals. Slew is 5 years younger than Roberto but also started out with about 500 more foals. Roberto has the lowest AEI of the three.

[Rokeby Forever]

Well, let's not forget that Roberto was a turfer, and as a rule, at least in this country, turf horses do not become successful sires. I don't think it's fair to compare numbers of stakes winners by Roberto sons to sons of Mr P and Seattle Slew simply because so many fewer Robertos stood stud, and there are so many more dirt stakes races than turf stakes races, especially for the younger horses.

[jagger]

Excellent point

[Rokeby Forever]

Thank you, Jagger....don't expect many from me, though. LOL!!!