shake you down

[geowarrior]

Um, I don't know if you could say I race horses, but I do own a share of three. I'm pretty attached to them and I'm constantly petrified that they'll be dropped to claiming level (a decision over which I have no control) and I'll lose them.

As I've said on this thread and others, I wouldn't mind seeing a lower class of racing than allowance which didn't involve a risk of losing the horse. I think that would benefit small owners who get pleasure from seeing their horses run and don't want to lose them. Obviously the claiming game is so entrenched in America that demand for such a thing has not emerged.

I don't necessarily have an objection to former stakes horses running for a tag per se, as racing is a business only for many, but I do think that an older horse which was previously high ranking and has dropped down to nickel level and below because of loss of interest or incipient unsoundness should be retired. Especially if it has more than earned its keep.

The situation varies from horse to horse obviously. Look at Collier Hill, did he just turn 8 or 9? I forget. But he started out hurdling and now he's winning high level graded stakes worldwide. Increasing age and loss of interest are not necessarily associated.

I would still maintain that unless different facts about Shake You Down emerge than have been reported on this thread, he would fall into the category 'should be retired'.

[galleria10]

I am a owner and have been for 6 years. I have owned over 50 racehorses. The owners need to take more responsability for the animals that they tout to love. As a owner it is my JOB to protect my horses. And give the respect they deserve. If you have a racehorse that has made alot of money and is getting up there in age, he should be retired. Instead they bled the animal into breakdown. Shake you Down is a walking pin cusion. It is only a matter of time before something snaps. I've seen it time and time again. It is the owners that allow the trainers to get away with that, and it will not stop until owners make it stop. I have been fired by trainers for being to involved...oh well.....my horses are sound..we have finished every race...we have never had a break down...we have had to retire several horses due to soundness issues or to the fact that their hearts were not in it anymore. We could have tapped and dropped like to many owners and trainers do and hope they get claimed. When that happens the new connections want their money back. So how do they do that??? They tap and drop too. It is a horrible cycle that has no end in sight. I understand people want to make money in this business, but when it could cost the animal his life?????? What does that make us??
There has been many times I wanted to get out of this business...but I feel if I do that will be one less horse I will save. The more money my horses make(soundly) the more horses we can save.

[Rokeby Forever]

I'd take that bet, Halo...and I resent your remark.

If I claimed a horse that did very, very well for me, I'd be more than happy to find it a good home upon retirement. As a business, I couldn't afford to do it with every horse, but the ones that support a stable deserve whatever we can do for them.

Suppose Lava Man got hurt today, missed two years, and then came back in a $40,000 claiming race in 2009. From a business perspective, one might argue, "Well, $40,000 is $40,000," but people like that don't belong in racing. Pure and simple.

[BJ]

The horse has more class than his connections sadly...

Many do.

Most do, unfortunately. There is way too small a percentage that take responsibility and treat the horse's life with reverence.

[BJ]

As I've said on this thread and others, I wouldn't mind seeing a lower class of racing than allowance which didn't involve a risk of losing the horse. I think that would benefit small owners who get pleasure from seeing their horses run and don't want to lose them. Obviously the claiming game is so entrenched in America that demand for such a thing has not emerged.

You are part of a very important group that is growing in number and volume. I believe we all need to network and make our voices heard with the racing officials. The public would surely support it, AND isn't it the public that supports racing? Believe me, most of the POSITIVE horse protection-related changes you see happening in racing is not because people actually care (at the top), it is because the public is making them VERY uncomfortable with the truth!

[Savana Star Dubois]

After being a member of a couple of partnerships..I bought a Dynaformer filly at the 2 year old sales..she hit the track in November of the following year and I retired her as a broodmare after losing 3 races by a combination of 64 lengths..I bred her and then sold her (pedigree on the dam side was superb)..her 3 year old went to the track this summer and only lasted 3 weeks and never got into a race due to chronic health issues with his leg ...I retired him also..he is going to be a show horse..so after about $100K in combined expenses.all I have is what could have been,, I do practice what I preach

[geowarrior]

BJ, I had no idea there was anybody else who thought the same way. I'm encouraged. I thought I was just a product of my British background, as I spent my childhood watching steeplechasing in particular where the purses aren't large but the pleasure taken by the owners in the horses is. Most of those people I'm sure couldn't conceive of losing their wonderful tho' not too talented equine character to a claim. I have tried to explain claiming to my parents (still in Scotland) but they don't really understand it. I'm still not too sure I do, other than the 'get your money back' principle alluded to by Galleria.

[Tucumcari]

It would be interesting to know if any of you people rattling sabers about stakes horses running for tag actually race horses yourself. Im betting not.

Yes. Owner/breeder PLUS.
And we'll run for a tag if they belong. And they are for sale.
BUT I do think that if a horse has done what a horse like Shake you down has done, that it might come to a point where the people who he did some good for OR some good soul decides that the horse doesn't owe them anything, and infact they themselves might owe the horse the luxury of a new life.
It's almost a disgrace that a horse that was so good once, who paid his way, who treated the people who owned him so well that he took them to the winner's circle time and time again, is being loaded in the gate and gets to run up the track against lesser company than he has faced in his many years as a race horse. He dserves to retire with some dignity, not keep bleeding and bleeding until he drops or he's vanned off to whatever he is destined for.
I think there is a point where we owe them for giving their lives for our enjoyment.

[kezeli]

Well there's also the fact that Shake You Down is a big good looking horse that makes running him for a $5000 tag really disgusting, I would bet with 6 months training he would fetch a lot more as a dressage prospect :roll:

[ageecee]

[quote="geowarrior"]Um, I don't know if you could say I race horses, but I do own a share of three. I'm pretty attached to them and I'm constantly petrified that they'll be dropped to claiming level (a decision over which I have no control) and I'll lose them.

As I've said on this thread and others, I wouldn't mind seeing a lower class of racing than allowance which didn't involve a risk of losing the horse. I think that would benefit small owners who get pleasure from seeing their horses run and don't want to lose them. Obviously the claiming game is so entrenched in America that demand for such a thing has not emerged.

I don't necessarily have an objection to former stakes horses running for a tag per se, as racing is a business only for many, but I do think that an older horse which was previously high ranking and has dropped down to nickel level and below because of loss of interest or incipient unsoundness should be retired. Especially if it has more than earned its keep.

The situation varies from horse to horse obviously. Look at Collier Hill, did he just turn 8 or 9? I forget. But he started out hurdling and now he's winning high level graded stakes worldwide. Increasing age and loss of interest are not necessarily associated.

I would still maintain that unless different facts about Shake You Down emerge than have been reported on this thread, he would fall into the category 'should be retired'.[/quote][quote]





Thats the same thing that SAM wants to do create a race for low level claimers that cant get claimed. Will never happen.. Run your horses where they belong and dont be afraid to lose them. Thats the game people..[/quote]

[wilf]

This thread is much the same as the one in the spring/summer concerning Bluesthestandard, another warrior that was now being thrown on the scrapheap for all to use or abuse as they will. The ratio of concerned and disgusted horse lovers and the businessmen masquerading as free enterprise vocalists was about 10 to 1. Its really very simple in that you either are standing up for a horse that has earned a long and noble retirement or you are another racetracker/owner/trainer that could not give a rat's ass .....end of story. Any layman would respect Shake you Down's record and agree that if he has come down to the bottom then the party is over and another few grand in the kitty should not be a deciding factor! I am an owner/trainer/claim some/lose some and am beat up by the business, however in my back yard is a 22 yr old gelding that fed me and the rest of my tired stable when things were tough in many a northern winter , he showed up every time and won 33 races lifetime , the hard way! It never occurred to me to palm him off to any one else even though he is a pain ! This thread is very simple, either you give a damn or you don't , please leave out the bullsh#####t!

[Barbaro06]

This topic reminds me of Perfect Moon, Malibu Moon's first stakes winner. He won over a half a million dollars and had won or finished in the money in graded stakes, but was running for a tag later in his career. Country Life Farm got wind of this and got a hold of him. He now is retired there where his sire got his start as a stallion. He was a lucky one.

[BJ]

APPLAUDING LOUDLY!!! Thank you Wilf for stating it so plainly yet SO eloquently! And thank you even more for that gelding in your back yard

For those of you who think it is about the money...most horsemen and women are are in this business because of the LOVE of the horse. Money is the lowest form of wealth.

[mightyhijames]

we've claimed a couple of low-level horses and when it was obvious their racing career was over, found very good homes for both of them, without making a dime. in fact, one is now a first-star eventer. we also have two 3-year old home-breds that are just starting to race in maiden claiming company. we keep in touch w/the trainer regarding their progress, their needs, their meds, etc. i can tell you without doubt that one or both will be retired immediately if they ever show signs that track life is not for them. if one were to be claimed, getting them back would be a top priority.

i certainly believe shake you down deserves no less.

[majxmom]

This topic reminds me of Perfect Moon, Malibu Moon's first stakes winner. He won over a half a million dollars and had won or finished in the money in graded stakes, but was running for a tag later in his career. Country Life Farm got wind of this and got a hold of him. He now is retired there where his sire got his start as a stallion. He was a lucky one.

That's why I bought into a CLF partnership. When I called them up, I told Josh Lyons that when they claimed him back, that was the deciding factor for me. He was so delighted!

If anyone wants to get a hold of Shake You Down and get him to Northern California, he'd have a home with me for life!