Could someone please explain "nerving" to me?

Cree · Postby **Cree** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:06 pm

Thank you. I would just like to know more about it, why people do it to horses, does it help. From what I have heard about it, it doesn't sound safe.

Rushtawin · Postby **Rushtawin** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:59 pm

A neurectomy of the palmar digital nerves will provide pain relief in extreme cases. Nerving a horse has potential downsides. First, removal of pain also removes the "stop mechanism" and the horse may work harder that is safe, continuing to damage the area. In addition, scrupulous attention must be paid to the nerved hooves because brewing infections such as abscesses could go unnoticed until the situation is far advanced.

That excerpt is from this website

Hope that helps. The jury seems to be out as to whether or not riding a nerved horse is dangerous or not... I've read articles both ways and haven't worked with a nerved horse to my knowledge (and my exposure is limited to the campus barns and any barns I've helped out). Due to it being nearly midnight, my brain is fried, or else I'd do a little more digging (and wishing my reference books were around). I'll keep an eye out for more information.

Heidilady · Postby **Heidilady** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 2:58 am

I've ridden one who has been. I really don't think it was the way to go in this particular case but hey, I guess the barn I rode at decided that wearing him out and choosing this to handle it is just the only way to operate. *sarcasm* This other horse there had back issues but since I was light enough they figured they could keep him and his own leg problems (from overuse) on the back burner...of course this meant the tall guy in our group got the bigger--in our case tougher--horses and my development was slowed because he wouldn't have anyone to ride if I moved up to his horses (grrr). But I digress.

The horse went fine but that was 3 years ago so who knows how he is now. He was 17 hands and a Saddlebred. Such a snappy horse and is 24 going on 25.

Sysonby · Postby **Sysonby** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:42 am

Are you asking because of Refinery? I'm really surprised that that story hasn't gotten more play on these boards--but on reflection, maybe not so surprised.

Toccet02 · Postby **Toccet02** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:22 am

I liked Refinery as a 2YO. Did they do this to him??

Sysonby · Postby **Sysonby** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:28 am

It was on Stein's show last week and it's been discussed on the Del Mar forum. Dan McFarland claimed the horse and tried to run him in Arizona. McFarland alleges that he only found out then that the horse was heel nerved because Arizona wouldn't let him run. You can access an archive of the show on Roger Stein's website for the full skinny.

Tucumcari · Postby **Tucumcari** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:04 am

Sysonby wrote:Are you asking because of Refinery? I'm really surprised that that story hasn't gotten more play on these boards--but on reflection, maybe not so surprised.

Me too.

nferro9925 · Postby **nferro9925** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 12:41 pm

Nerving is what also contributed to Hanover being destroyed early.
His hoof was nerved and after he went to stud - he banged the stall
wall for so long he destroyed the hoof. He never felt the pain.

BJ · Postby BJ » Sat Jan 06, 2007 5:20 am

Sysonby wrote:It was on Stein's show last week and it's been discussed on the Del Mar forum. Dan McFarland claimed the horse and tried to run him in Arizona. McFarland alleges that he only found out then that the horse was heel nerved because Arizona wouldn't let him run. You can access an archive of the show on Roger Stein's website for the full skinny.

This is first I'm hearing about Refinery.

A couple of things come to mind:

1. This is a perfect example as to why medication and "other" procedures need to be "standardized", at least in the U.S.

2. I was aghast when I first read in the CHRB rules that nerving was "allowed" and need only be disclosed, and I still feel that way. California is WAY behind the curve on that one, IMO.

So...if the rule is that it must be disclosed, how did McFarland miss that one? Luckily the Arizona racing officials can read.
http://chrb.ca.gov/horsemans_medication_handbook.pdf [See page 23]

BJ · Postby BJ » Sat Jan 06, 2007 5:23 am

Heidilady wrote:I've ridden one who has been. I really don't think it was the way to go in this particular case but hey, I guess the barn I rode at decided that wearing him out and choosing this to handle it is just the only way to operate. *sarcasm*

The horse went fine but that was 3 years ago so who knows how he is now. He was 17 hands and a Saddlebred. Such a snappy horse and is 24 going on 25.

Having seen a few private hunter/jumper barns in the last year...my gut tells me, if you care about the horse, you should be checking on him. Otherwise, if he was being treated like THAT 3 years ago, do you really think he is "just fine" now?

Sysonby · Postby **Sysonby** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 7:33 am

BJ wrote:So...if the rule is that it must be disclosed, how did McFarland miss that one? Luckily the Arizona racing officials can read.
http://chrb.ca.gov/horsemans_medication_handbook.pdf [See page 23]

Disclosed where? Not in the Form where someone might pick it up or even on a vets list but in a letter to the CHRB which he could have seen if he had known or surmised enough to ask for it prior to the claim. One of my best friends ran a claiming stable for a long time--that's not SOP when you drop for a horse. And as McFarland noted on the show "Look at the connections I claimed from..."

But when the horse's papers went to Arizona, my guess is that the letter went with them.

I'm with you BJ. I'm amazed that Southern California even allows nerving of active horses. My gut (and admittedly uneducated) opinion is that sounds like a recipe for disaster.

BJ · Postby BJ » Sat Jan 06, 2007 8:23 am

Sysonby wrote:
BJ wrote:So...if the rule is that it must be disclosed, how did McFarland miss that one? Luckily the Arizona racing officials can read.
http://chrb.ca.gov/horsemans_medication_handbook.pdf [See page 23]

Disclosed where? Not in the Form where someone might pick it up or even on a vets list but in a letter to the CHRB which he could have seen if he had known or surmised enough to ask for it prior to the claim. One of my best friends ran a claiming stable for a long time--that's not SOP when you drop for a horse. And as McFarland noted on the show "Look at the connections I claimed from..."

But when the horse's papers went to Arizona, my guess is that the letter went with them.

I'm with you BJ. I'm amazed that Southern California even allows nerving of active horses. My gut (and admittedly uneducated) opinion is that sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Perhaps Rick Arthur (I believe this is one of his aggressive agenda items) WILL push for the PRE-CLAIM disclosure regs. That said, I know, from my own experience, that these things can and should be STAMPED on the papers, just like vaccines and dates of transit from state to state.

THIS IS A DISGUSTING practice and California should be ASHAMED it allows it! But then again, we induct, into the Hall Of Fame, individuals who ship horses off to slaughter. At least West Virginia has actively worked to keep such "known individuals" from receiving the industry's highest accolades.

California has figured out a way to GET AROUND the ugly horse slaughter issue by passing a "feel good law" that doesn't allow the sale or transport of horses for slaughter within its borders. (But we all know how easy it is to pretend to be shipping a horse to another state for "other purposes" and then..."Oh gosh...I just don't know how that horse ended up in the kill pen :shock:

" EVEN THOUGH...there is a death report filed with the JC and "OH GOSH...the horse isn't really dead...it got rescued :oops:

I wonder how that shows up on the tax returns...hmmm!
And of course, when the former owner/breeder is contacted by the rescue facility...the former owner/breeder has no interest in "sponsoring" the horse's retirement. BIG surprise. Oh well...no biggy...right? :wink:

)

I say it's high time we pass an AMENDMENT such as the one proposed by Buford, in Kentucky... to keep a PUBLIC DATABASE of horses that end up in kill pens out of state (and known Ag auctions that ship to kill pens out of state). And the Jockey Club needs to REQUIRE a "cause of death" to be VERIFIED by a Vet, IMO. Because it really doesn't matter if we care about "nerving" or drugging as "harmful or inhumane to the horse", if we can so easily look the other way at the inhumane practices of horse slaughter.

Yeah I know it can't be fixed overnight...but I'm so tired of hearing that as an excuse NOT to start chunking away at the ugly little industry problem. <preemptive response> :wink:

Tucumcari · Postby **Tucumcari** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:23 pm

I find it less appaling that Dan was anaware of the issue, than I do that it was done at all. AND done by Mandella, who is supposed to be the only honest horseman on the grounds. Had the horse been nerved for quite a while or was it when he wanted to loose the horse and win. Does that make him any different than any other trainer who takes "advantages?" Won't put him in the detention barn, but it's in poor taste.

Lucy · Postby **Lucy** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 3:28 pm

Sysonby wrote: Disclosed where? Not in the Form where someone might pick it up or even on a vets list but in a letter to the CHRB which he could have seen if he had known or surmised enough to ask for it prior to the claim.

I don't know about CA - but several years ago, I saw the list of nerved horses posted in the racing office at Belmont. It was posted clearly enough that I could read it (and I was just trailing along as the guest of an owner), someone with an actual interest would have no problem spotting it. If that isn't the case everywhere, it should be.

'Course, I can't think of any reason to run a nerved horse to begin with - but I'm hardly a vet, or even a trainer. I've heard people say that Refinery's case is a relatively 'safe' one, that it's only on the bulb of the heel not the whole foot....but to me, that only calls its necessity into question.

Cree · Postby **Cree** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:31 pm

Here is a list of horses that are nerved in Ontario. I am just digging around right now.

http://www.ontarioracingcommission.com/ ... e_List.pdf